A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Use this space to brainstorm and offer up new ideas.
SquirrelGirl
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by SquirrelGirl »

It has come to my attention that maybe it's time to make this post. Much is in the works to address many of the major issues in the game, so now I want to start a conversation about something that affects me, and all the Creature Handlers who want to get good Bio-Engineered pets.

Bio-Engineered pets are only shadows of their wild counterparts. Their statistics are stunted and imbalanced. The maximum level pet that can be achieved with this broken system is 67, and that is a pet with serious handicaps. Even using the best possible combinations of DNA, it is impossible to create a maximum level pet. As pointed out in another thread about the old BE stat tabulating tool, it appears the problem is with the stats after assembly. They are far too low. To better understand the basics of the problem, I will attempt to explain a couple examples of what is in DNA and Templates that make the stats on a pet.

Hardiness = Health.

In order to create a pet with 12,000 health, it needs at least 700 hardiness. If you sample a gurreck with 12,000 HAM for example, it will be reflected in the DNA and have about 700 hardiness. Now, when you plug this in to a DNA template, even with an amazing assembly, you usually end up with about 180 hardiness. That means you have to use at least 6 or 7 of your experimentation points just to bring the DNA up to its potential for that single stat. I will even use DNA that from a creature with 14,000 HAM, and it is still difficult to achieve the desired result.

Power = Damage.

So now you've spent over half your experimentation points on getting only the pets health in line with your goals. So, the best DNA for power comes out about 960, from a creature that does about 1100 damage. Plug that into a DNA template, best possible scenario is around 200 after assembly. With the remaining points, the best that can be managed is about 800, giving the outcome of the pet about 700 dmg.

These pets come out between level 63-67, and they are best case scenario - lots of amazing experiments. They have 12,000 health, but around 2,000 action and mind. If I could either have enough points to experiment into their other stats, or a better outcome at assembly, I'm betting their levels would rise with thier efficacy. Currently, the first thing that hits action or mind knocks them right over.

All that said, there are effective caps on stats. I can get up to 96% on health, and that's about 12,800 health, so even if numbers are adjusted, it's impossible to make ridiculous pets. Levels scale appropriately with Health and Damage, so there will be no level 10 pets with 12,000 health or unreasonable damage. Resists also seem to carry over correctly, no exceeding the 60% cap and averaging out with varying DNA.

I just want to be able to fill the role BE pets are supposed to: Maximum controllable level pets. If this can be achieved, the balance on the rest of the lower level pets should come with it, theoretically speaking.
Halyn
Site Admin
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 8:53 am

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by Halyn »

So what's your proposed solution? Tie the action and mind experimentation together with the health into a single line?
Halyn
Site Admin
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 8:53 am

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by Halyn »

I'll also note that BE is still a WIP with crafted animals over on SWGEmu:

http://www.swgemu.com/bugs/view.php?id=5701

That partly affects what we do here, but I'm willing to make adjustments.
SquirrelGirl
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by SquirrelGirl »

Well... I'll try and view the fancy bugtracker-majig later cause it wants a sign in.

For now, I'll say it's tricky, because there are 5 areas of experimention. There are physique, prowess, mental, psychological, and aggression. Each governs three statistics on the DNA template, some of which are more useful than others. If you were to tie any together as a quick-fix, it would be physique, prowess, and mental. The only hazard there is prowess affects dexterity, i.e. how fast the pet hits. If it's capped like health is though, it shouldn't be a problem either.

The long hand fix of course is to increase the stats after assembly. But... if you'd be willing to try a tie between the areas of experimentation, so am I!
withyouforyou
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:28 am

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by withyouforyou »

Are the formulas different than they were in live?

IIRC, in live it was this:

Hardiness: 40% Physique, 25% Prowess, 25% Aggression, Mental 5%, 5% Psychology
Dexterity: 42% Prowess, 25% Physique, 17% Mental, 8.5 Psychology, 7.5% Aggression
Intellect: 50% Mental, 30% Psychology, 10% Prowess, 5% Physique, 5% Aggression
Power: 42% Aggression, 17% Physique, 16.5% Psychology, 16% Prowess, 8.5% Mental
Speed(Attack): 43% Psychology, 26% Mental, 17% Aggression, 9% Physique, 5% Prowess

and resists used the hardiness formula...

Is that not the case on SWGEMU? (I didn't really get far into BE because I ran out of points so I couldn't really look into it like Mrs. Doreen has)

Really, I don't -think- you could alter it in a haste because it would impact it in a pretty big way if this is the case..
SquirrelGirl
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by SquirrelGirl »

Bio-Engineering underwent many changes during Pre-CU and Post-CU. To which incarnation do those numbers apply? Specials also NEVER worked - and they do here, so things are definitely different...However, I don't math, so I can't tell you how in that regard.

What I can tell you:

>Those stats aren't intertwined like that here. It pretty much feeds the stats from the DNA in the slot into the associated stats on the template.

- Physique - Hardiness and Fortitude (Health and Armor)
- Prowess - Dexterity, Endurance (Action and attack speed/to hit)
- Mental - Intellect and Cleverness (Mind. Stat is taken from intellect, cleverness seems superfluous)
- Pyschological - Courage and dependability (As on live, seems to do NOTHING. The second special on the DNA you use get applied to the template. That's it. I can use spitting rawl DNA for the strong poison and all it will affect is the overall resists. It was supposed to do with the how controllable a pet is, but it seems as though as long as it's not 0 a CL10 pet works.)
- Aggression - Power and Fiercenesss (Power affects damage. Fierceness seems superfluous. I've not noticed a change whether it's high or low on a pet.)

>Experimenting doesn't affect resists as long as they're not 0. They will be what they will be, though I *know* each slot has a more balanced % for what they will end up than the formula described above. Mental and psychology are definitely more than 5%. I will reveal a bit of a trade secret I discovered here that is the exception - if all DNA assembled in a template has 0 resists, they will all increase with each point of experimentation in physique up to 50%, then drop back down to 0%. So you can make a CL20-30 pet with perfectly balanced resists if you know what DNA to look for.

So, my thought still stands as long as there is a cap on pet attack speeds as there is on physique (Which I'm pretty sure it wasn't what it is here on live, either) it can't hurt to try.
SquirrelGirl
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by SquirrelGirl »

Bio-engineering DNA Template assembly and experimentation:

DNA Input:

Physique:
Hardiness: 846
Fortitude: 760
Endurance: 515
Intellect: 762
Cleverness: 790
Dependability: 516
Courage: 511
Dexterity: 849
Fierceness: 645
Power: 819

Prowess:
Hardiness: 633
Fortitude: 305
Endurance: 510
Intellect: 623
Cleverness: 384
Dependability: 500
Courage: 504
Dexterity: 663
Fierceness: 497
Power: 501

Mental:
Hardiness: 636
Fortitude: 301
Endurance: 509
Intellect: 625
Cleverness: 386
Dependability: 510
Courage: 500
Dexterity: 664
Fierceness: 503
Power: 500

Psychological:
Hardiness: 646
Fortitude: 519
Endurance: 517
Intellect: 710
Cleverness: 707
Dependability: 519
Courage: 510
Dexterity: 680
Fierceness: 100
Power: 844

Aggression:
Hardiness: 750
Fortitude: 612
Endurance: 514
Intellect: 786
Cleverness: 862
Dependability: 507
Courage: 511
Dexterity: 793
Fierceness: 97
Power: 972

After assembly at current percentage (15%):

Physique:
Hardiness: 126
Fortitude: 114

Prowess:
Endurance: 99
Dexterity: 99

Mental:
Intellect: 93
Cleverness: 57

Psychological:
Courage: 76
Dependability: 77

Aggresion:
Fierceness: 14
Power: 145

After Expermentation (You only have enough points to raise health and damage):

Physique (x5pts):
Hardiness: 626
Fortitude: 614

Prowess:
Endurance: 99
Dexterity: 99

Mental:
Intellect: 93
Cleverness: 57

Psychological:
Courage: 76
Dependability: 77

Aggression (x5pts):
Fierceness: 514
Power: 645

(This produces a pet approximately CL45 with 10k health, 400dmg and nothing else)

Same DNA Input assembly with an increase of 25% (35%):

Physique:
Hardiness: 296
Fortitude: 266

Prowess:
Endurance: 178
Dexterity: 232

Mental:
Intellect: 218
Cleverness: 173

Psychological:
Courage: 178
Dependability: 181

Aggresion:
Fierceness: 33
Power: 340

After Experimentation (Would have enough points to raise health, action and damage):

Physique (x3pts):
Hardiness: 596
Fortitude: 566

Prowess (x3pts):
Endurance: 478
Dexterity: 532

Mental:
Intellect: 218
Cleverness: 173

Psychological:
Courage: 178
Dependability: 181

Agression (x4pts):
Fierceness: 633
Power: 740

(I can estimate this would also produce a CL50 pet with 10k health and 9k action, and 550-600 dmg.)

The same DNA input assembly with my suggestion of 35% increase (45%):

Physique:
Hardiness: 380
Fortitude: 342

Prowess:
Endurance: 229
Dexterity: 280

Mental:
Intellect: 281
Cleverness: 135

Psychological:
Courage: 229
Dependability: 233

Aggresion:
Fierceness: 43
Power: 437

After experimentation (Enough points to raise Health, action, mind and damage):

Physique (x3pts):
Hardiness: 680
Fortitude: 642

Prowess(x2pts):
Endurance: 429
Dexterity: 480

Mental (x2pts):
Intellect: 481
Cleverness: 335

Psychological:
Courage: 229
Dependability: 233

Aggression(x3pts):
Fierceness: 343
Power: 737

(The estimated pet result would be CL65+ with 11k health, 9k action, 9kmind, and 550-600dmg)
Anishor
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:14 am

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by Anishor »

Can you provide resists in your estimate please?
SquirrelGirl
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by SquirrelGirl »

Physique DNA Example Resists:

Kinetic - 45
Energy - 65
Blast - 25
Heat - 100
Cold - 100
Electricity - 100
Acid - 25
Stun - 25
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

Prowess DNA Example Resists:

Kinetic - 65
Energy - 65
Blast - 40
Heat - 25
Cold - 30
Electricity - Vulnerable
Acid - 30
Stun - 30
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

Mental DNA Example Resists:

Kinetic - 65
Energy - 65
Blast - 40
Heat - 25
Cold - 30
Electricity - Vulnerable
Acid - 30
Stun - 30
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

Psychological DNA Example Resists:

Kinetic - 45
Energy -65
Blast - 45
Heat - 90
Cold - Vulnerable
Electricity - 0
Acid - 0
Stun - Vulnerable
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

Aggression DNA Example Resists:

Kinetic - 40
Energy - 10
Blast - 10
Heat - Vulnerable
Cold - Vulnerable
Electricity - 10
Acid - 10
Stun - Vulnerable
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

As per the tool here: https://www.swgcreatures.com/DNALab.asp AND in current practice, the results are:

Kinetic - 49
Energy - 51
Blast - 26
Heat - 52
Cold - 49
Electricity - 12
Acid - 21
Stun - 9
Lightsaber - Vulnerable

Of course, the main issue with the resists really is they are ALL vulnerable to LS. Big giant gaping hole to be addressed later. :D
Halyn
Site Admin
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 8:53 am

Re: A plea for Bio-Engineered Pets

Post by Halyn »

Anishor is working on a patch based on the match presented here. Details/timing TBA.
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